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Report 1752
Report #1752 Skillset: Combat Skill: Stance Org: Gaudiguch Status: Completed Jul 2017 Furies' Decision: Sure. Clumsiness will also stop stancing. Problem: Currently Warriors and Monks are both countered via Parry. The problem arises in that they both have vastly different reasons for selecting what to parry and in this Envoy's opinion causes situations where the moment you have a warrior+monk combination you will lose to one or the other with little to no recourse. This report is also up for discussion on the Envoy Wiki. R: 1 Solution #1: Remove Parry as a counter to Monks and instead use Combat Stances. Splitting Stance% among limbs for those that have multiple areas covered. 8 R: 2 Solution #2: As well as Solution 1, Remove anti-parry(stance) mechanics from monks 9 R: 2 Solution #3: As well as Solution 1 and 2, Allow kicks to be stanced against. Player Comments: ---on 6/30 @ 03:17 sets as pending ---on 7/1 @ 19:58 writes: I'm against sol 2. Anti-parry/stance mechanics for monks trade an affliction for a guarantee to hit the intended target. I think that's a good trade. ---on 7/1 @ 21:05 writes: Supported all options. The anti parry/stance mechanic lets you set up a simple rotation to basically ignore parry right now. I'd much prefer if correct parry/stancing was rewarded and monks are forced to shift focus on body parts. Monks afflictions will need tweaking but well they are still a work in progress class. ---on 7/2 @ 15:54 writes: @Veyils Danquik said remove anti-parry(stance) in Sol 2, so that covers only changing the surge high strike through parry stuff. That doesn't include the arm action drop parry mechanic. ---on 7/2 @ 15:56 writes: That said, I'm all for sol1. Sol2 I'd rather not. But sol3 I'm behind in addition to Sol1. ---on 7/2 @ 19:35 writes: Ah that wasn't clear to me. I think it would be a good idea to simply remove all the anti-parry arm moves from all monks and switch their effects on a case by case basis. ---on 7/5 @ 19:58 writes: I like the idea of keeping parry for Warriors only. This makes it much easier to write a parry script. ---on 7/7 @ 20:44 writes: Not opposed to making stance for monks and parry for warriors, but also support solution 2. Another idea I was mulling over for that was making the monk parry disables only work -below- surge, so they have that going for them in their somewhat weaker early game but can't lock out parry entirely when they're at their strongest. ---on 7/14 @ 14:06 writes: So it looks like the Gods have decided that sol. 1 is not going to happen given the removal of the various skills. I'm trying to think of what stances sol. 2 actually impacts, sol. 3 I'm okay with. One request I'd make that's related to all of this but not explicitly mentioned would be to add the body part parried (or stanced if sol. 1 passes with a miracle). Right now you get a generic parry message which means to adequately track which part was parried you need to have have some complex triggers including your own attack lines or some sort of tracking of your own forms. Ideally it'd just say in the message "Blah parries your strike on their with " so you could make an echo for that. ---on 7/16 @ 01:10 writes: It's been stated that the skills have not actually been *deleted,* just removed from the skillset. So they can be repurposed and put back in, if that solution is accepted. We did ask about this one. ---on 7/18 @ 19:11 writes: Supported for all and also the concept of removing an anti-parry/stance ability. ---on 7/25 @ 08:58 writes: Agree. Anti-parry/stance for monks should probably get axed. They can juggle prone and clumsy just as well as warriors as far as I can tell. Support all solutions. ---on 7/30 @ 08:20 writes: I feel like this is an overreaction and overreaching solution beyond the stated problem. The problem stated is monk and warrior combinations, but the solutions will not help monk+monk or warrior+warrior situations that do the exact same thing. Synergy between classes is not bad. Regarding sol 2: This is completely irrelevant to the problem as stated. If you move monks to stances, what is the warrant for removing anti-stance? The problem statement makes no claim about it. Removing anti-parry(stance) seems unclear what we are arguing about - if, as Anelissa said, it is ONLY about stance effects, and those stance effects are replaced with something (which is not included in the solution?) then I can see that I guess, but it is not germane to the problem. I see no reason to remove anti-parry/stance arm actions as some suggest, and it would generate a lot of work to, as Veyils put it, switch the effects of all of the lost actions on a case by case basis. In the meantime, those actions are useless, because there is no solution presented here. Because every monk spec is different, access to prone/clumsiness is not universal. Monks do not get a power move to bypass parry/stance, because classes are different, and class differentiation is good. Monks have differentiation even within classes, and broad, major changes like this that do not address the problem statement are, I think, unwarranted. I am not convinced of the problem, and I do not think any of these options are the correct way to solve it. I am rejecting all three.